So how can we send the message that we want to move forwards to the renewable future and leave coal oil and gas in the past — and be heard? We need to raise our voices and our friends in the Pacific, Fenton Lutunatabua and Joseph Moeono-Kolio join us in Episode 4 to help us speed things up. We’ll learn how to amplify our impact with legendary social researcher on climate communication Dr. Rebecca Huntley, and get a politician’s inspiring point of view from Deputy Lord Mayor of City of Sydney, Jess Scully.
Australians overwhelmingly want a safe climate future. But the people who are in positions of power and influence don’t seem to be hearing us. This week Australia was snubbed from speaking at the Global Climate Ambition Summit because our leaders are being… well, not very ambitious when it comes to our climate commitments.
So how can we send the message that we want to move forwards to the renewable future and leave coal oil and gas in the past — and be heard? We need to raise our voices and our friends in the Pacific, Fenton Lutunatabua and Joseph Moeono-Kolio join us in Episode 4 to help us speed things up. We’ll learn how to amplify our impact with legendary social researcher on climate communication Dr. Rebecca Huntley, and get a politician’s inspiring point of view from Deputy Lord Mayor of City of Sydney, Jess Scully.
EP 4:How can we make our leaders listen? – TRANSCRIPT
Jess: Picture long stretches of sandy beach, clear blue ocean, a backdrop of rolling foresty
mountains…
Ash: Now add an enormous coal loading facility, some thousand ton ships and rolling hills of coal.
Fenton Lutunatabua: And I remember just sitting at the top of that coal loading facility and as far
as I could see, there were just ships, right?
Jess: This is Fenton Lutunatabua, and he’s a Pacific Climate Warrior. It’s 2009, and Fenton has
chained himself to the Hay Point coal loading facility in Queensland. And he’s watching as these
ships carry tons of coal dug from Australian mines out to the Pacific Ocean.
Fenton Lutunatabua: They look like mountains out on the ocean, mountains of coal out on the
ocean that were moving.
Ash: Fenton has put his body on the line – like literally on the climbing line – dangling 50 metres in
the air to demand a stop to the expansion of the coal industry.
Jess: For years, Fenton has been one of the many voices of the Pacific nations trying to get a
message through to Australia about climate change.
Fenton Lutunatabua: You need to do more if you keep calling yourself a big brother to the Pacific.
Jess: It’s a message that Jess and I hear loud and clear… but we’ve got a little problem. We know
we have to call on the big wigs, politicians, banks and big business to get fossil fuels out of our
system now. But for some reason, when it comes down to Ash and I, we’re feeling a little out of our
depth…
Lifeguard: Get out of the water, professionals only!
Ash: Do you know how to talk to influential people about climate change?
Jess: Not really… I usually just stay safe on the shore and leave it to the experts.
Lifeguard: Uh… Are you guys wearing floaties?
Ash: I feel like an idiot.
Jess: Ugh! Something touched my leg!
Lifeguard: Ash Berdebes and Jessica Hamilton, get out of the water!
Ash: Hello there, fellow systems changer, I’m Ash.
Jess: And I’m Jess, and we’re two mates on a mission to work out how to talk about climate
change to the people with power.
Ash: We’ve got research that says 90% of Australians want action on climate change. So why do we
all hold back on asking for it?
Everyday Australians: I’ve never spoken to anyone in a position of power about climate at all…
You know, do you call someone? Do you email someone? Are you allowed to do that? I don’t know…
I’m curious to know what advice people have for communicating about climate better and
specifically communicating the importance of policy change…
I don’t know how much ability I have to influence politicians.
I do occasionally sign petitions when I see them, but to be honest, I never know what impact, if any,
those petitions that I do sign end up having.
Jess: We need some help! So we’re calling on the experts and our new mates at Greenpeace
Australia Pacific to help us figure out how everyday people like Ash and I can influence the
influential so that we can do it – together – because we’re heaps better together.
Ash: OK, so back to that coal port that we were just dangling in, I mean, we weren’t really at a coal
port. We podcasters, we haven’t done any of the intrepid stuff yet. We’re on a Zoom call with Fenton,
but he’s now safe on the ground in Suva, Fiji.
Fenton Lutunatabua: I’m Fenton Lutunatabua. I’m a big believer in storytelling in purpose of
something. Oh, and I probably should say I do work as well for a climate organisation, 350.org.
Jess: And we’re also joined by Joe Moeno-Kolio.
Joe Moeono-Kolio: So I’m Joe Moeono-Kolio, based here in Samoa. It is just after 8:00 here. So it’s
pretty dark outside.
Jess: Joe is another Pacific Climate Warrior and he’s head of Pacific for Greenpeace.
Joe Moeono-Kolio: We were a former colony. I think it was one of the first nonviolent, peaceful civil
disobedience actions of the 20th century that enabled us to build an empire. And I often reflect on
that as, you know, the methods used back then I feel are quite potent and perhaps very vital lessons
for this new empire of sorts that we’re campaigning against now, which is greed and climate
change and that sort of thing.
Ash: Both Joe and Fenton are incredible campaigners, total experts. They’ve had the ear of the BBC,
CNN, even the pope.
Joe Moeono-Kolio: So all that work has been largely informed by where we’ve come from as
a people having to constantly live in this perpetual state of fighting back against some kind of
injustice. It’s come from the need to have really solid strategy in place. But it’s also come from
relationships like mine with Fenton and the Pacific way, right? Working together for this kind of
collective goal.
Ash: We’re all talking about it whenever we, like, have beers at the pub, but I don’t know if we’re
doing anything. Like how do we move from talking about it to being active?
Jess: So we asked, “how can Ash and I add our voices to the campaign and ask the Australian
government to walk the talk when they refer to the Pacific as family?” And they were kind of like,
yeah, that’s on you guys.
Joe Moeono-Kolio: The people that select your government are the ones who are responsible for
delivering this message. You know, you can build all the solidarity and goodwill with us, but it’s the
responsibility of the Australian voter.
Fenton Lutunatabua: You have to activate Australians and get them to use their vote in ways that
will sort of shift us from the trajectory that we’re on right now.
Ash: OK, so we need to activate ourselves. I’m up for the challenge.
Jess: I mean, I would definitely like to learn a little bit more before I make a total fool out of myself.
Ash: OK, let’s get out of these floaties. Can we get some help here, please? Hello? Can we have the
little safety orange ring thing? Thank you!
Jess: OK, it can be a little scary to talk to people in power about climate change, so to get our heads
around this little stagefright issue, Ash and I started a book club. Yep, one of the easiest ways to
get out of our floaties and get engaged. Reading, thinking and learning! So we’ve picked a book and
we’re inviting the authors into our ears to talk about some of our favorite parts. Ash, wanna kick us
off?
Ash: Yes. So I wanted to know how to get into these conversations without getting entirely bummed
out and bringing people all the way down. So I picked “Glimpses of Utopia” by Jess Scully. Jess has
had a really interesting career between the arts, media and politics. She’s currently the Deputy Lord
Mayor of Sydney and she happens to live around the corner from me. So I invited her around for tea.
Jess Scully: Thank you for inviting me into your beautiful horse stable! Oh look at this door!
Jess: In case that didn’t make a whole lot of sense to you, Ash lives in a tiny converted horse stable.
It’s very cute.
Ash: So I wanted to read this book because Jess has front row seats to this awesome future that’s
unfolding in pockets around the world every single day.
Jess Scully: I get these bursts of adrenaline when I hear from these people and meet these people
and I feel empowered and energised. And then I realised everyone else is super depressed because
they don’t get this – I need to bottle some of this lightning and put it in one place and share it. So
I wanted to give people a document that said this has been done before in hundreds of different
places around the world. Let’s pick and choose from this lolly bag of options.
Ash: So your book is basically a lolly bag of options for making the world a better place? I mean,
that sounds delicious.
Jess: It does sound delicious! Can you give me one of these lollies, Ash?
Ash: Oh, my gosh. Can I show you my fave one, it is so tasty. So one of the things that kind of blew
my mind in that it was so attainable and so impactful was the idea of this citizen’s jury.
Jess: Oh yeah, what’s that?
Ash: So there’s been like citizen’s assemblies over the world, sometimes just focused on climate. But the idea is that you get like a really random, broad group of people that represents the actual population, and then you get them all together, you give them all the information and then you see
what they actually want.
Jess Scully: So instead of having a parliament of people who are mostly wealthy white men with
law degrees from teams blue and red making decisions, you have a group that looks like the actual
population of the country taking the time to take all the information in and then coming to a set of
positions and recommendations.
Ash: And so in 2019, the City of Sydney ran a citizens jury. They asked people living in the council
area to tell them what they wanted from the city.
Jess Scully: So we received 2,500 ideas, submissions, pieces of input from citizens across the city,
from experts, from kids on postcards, you name it.
Ash: And then a group of 50 randomly selected Sydneysiders sat down over a few months and
they wrestled with all these ideas and they had the opportunity to interview those experts who then
wrote their own report.
Jess Scully: And and their recommendations were, I get goosebumps thinking about it, because
the first thing they told us was that we need to make a regenerative city, that we can’t just be
sustainable, but we have to go a step beyond that. We have to clean the air in the water. We have to
give back more than we take. And they put care for each other, affordability, creativity and nightlife.
All of these things were central to the vision as well as a process of truth telling and justice with
First Nations people. So the recommendations you get from a representative group of citizens who
have all the information is something quite different to what you’d get in the pub test if people are
just kind of like spouting off based on the last thing they heard on the radio.
Jess: Oh, Ash, this is so good.
Ash: I know. Look what happens when we get together and we actually have a platform and the
right information and the confidence to actually say what we want?
Jess Scully: Once regular people have all the information at their disposal and they have the ability
to ask questions and they’re empowered to make decisions, you get courageous climate action and
climate policy.
Jess: I just really love this story, Ash, because it’s like we really do want this future – this heaps
better future – and we’re not just like, you know, sometimes it just feels like you’re just one small
person just screaming into the void.
Ash: I know. And I was talking to Jess Scully about that feeling, like kind of how we feel small and
powerless a lot of the time in this, and what’s the point of even trying to talk to people in power?
And she said –
Jess Scully: That feeling that you have of being atomized and isolated and lacking direction or
purpose and disconnected from the place that you live in this world and feeling always tired and put
upon? That stuff is the system that we have today, that stuff isn’t just happening to you. Everybody
feels that and that’s the sign that the system doesn’t work for anybody but a tiny few people at the
top of the pyramid who are making plenty of bank out of it. And that’s why they want everything
that they want to keep this going exactly as it is. But every single one of us will do better, feel better,
be more joyful and more joyous in our lives if we change the system.
Jess: Right. So we really need to change the system… But we already knew that!
Ash: We’re just lacking the… confidence?
Jess: OK, let’s think of this big old faulty system that we’re living in as a big boat, the Titanic.
We’ve got the captain and the crew who are responsible for the safety of everyone on board – the
Australian government. Then there’s the people who built and powered the thing – the fossil fuel
industry and other big business interests. And they’re all eating together at the same First-Class
table to the tune of a string quartet that’ll play whatever music they get asked to.
Ash: OK, so the string quartet is the media?
Jess: Yeah, certain pockets of the media and it’s like they’re being conducted by some rich old
bloke in America. Then there’s us – 25 million-ish passengers. Now, this Titanic of ours is cruising,
but there’s been a few oversights. First, it’s powered by coal and it’s going to lose steam if it doesn’t
make some changes real quick.
Ash: Not to mention that the workers are getting a lot of smoke in their lungs
Jess: Second, there’s a giant iceberg of extreme weather events in our direct path. We’re all out on
deck with binoculars staring at this big iceberg and thinking it’s “Oh, is that what I think it is? That
does not look good.” The people running the joint are busy steaming up the windows of the car in
the hold with the fossil fuel lobby and the media are playing their love song. And us? We generally
trust that the staff know what they’re doing. So we’re strolling around, falling in love with Leo and
passively cruising toward… Well, we’ve all seen the film.
Ash: This boat is not designed to withstand giant icebergs!
Jess: But there could be an alternative ending to our story and that’s because we know that we
really need to go talk to the crew
Ash: OK Jess, I’m on board in every sense of the word. I would like to navigate us to a new system,
but how do we talk about climate change in a way that actually is going to make a difference?
Jess: Oh Ash, what a segue! Let me tell you about my book club book. It is literally called:
Rebecca Huntley: “How to Talk About Climate Change in a Way That Makes a Difference.”
Jess: And this is the person who wrote it.
Rebecca Huntley: Hi, I’m Rebecca Huntley. I’m a researcher and writer, broadcaster and mother of
three girls.
Jess: So Rebecca has spent years listening to what Australians think about a whole lot of stuff, but
particularly how they feel about climate change. Rebecca was feeling kind of bummed out after the
last election, feeling like all these people who say that they care about the planet didn’t actually vote
for the planet. So she wrote this book to help us out.
Rebecca Huntley: And it’s really about not shifting people’s belief in climate change, but shifting
people’s action.
Jess: In order to shift people into action Rebecca says we need to shake up who is doing all the
talking about climate change. Politicians would often say to her, yeah, sure, we hear all this research
that says that most Australians want action on climate change, but we never hear from the
greenies.
Rebecca Huntley: One of the really critically important challenges for the climate movement is
to diversify the people who talk about climate. People struggle to think about who are the most
effective climate change communicators and generally they think of them as scientists, politicians,
the occasional celebrity. You know, Leonardo DiCaprio takes some break from having sex with
supermodels to talk about climate change. Good on him. Actually, everybody should follow his
Instagram account because it’s very, very good. It’s fun making fun of Leo, you’ve got to take your
joys in climate change!
Jess: Look, I was a young Leo fan, but old Leo is doing some good stuff. Totally.
Ash: Jess? Jess… jess?
Jess: Ash! Sorry, I was suddenly a teenager again in Leo-land. Where were we?
Ash: Rebecca was just saying that we only ever hear from scientists or politicians or celebrities.
Jess: Oh, yeah.
Rebecca Huntley: In a sense you’re more powerful if you’re not an environmentalist. So one of the
most kind of interesting and inspiring kinds of developments are groups of people coming together,
whether they be focused around a hobby or a profession. So you’ve got professional groups like
particularly mental health nurses, midwives, accountants, architects, engineers coming together
saying, ‘there are genuine implications for how I do my job and my capacity to do my job and my
professional ethics and my professional life from climate change’.
Jess: So when politicians here from all walks of life, then there’s no option for them but to listen and
act. So all the farmers concerned about crops and cricket coaches worried about kids training in the
heat, people in the city, people in the country.
Ash: OK. But what do we actually say?
Jess: Everyone’s on board and so many Australians are concerned and alarmed, like let’s let’s do
something about it. But there’s some point where you go, “oh I’m just going to let the experts kind
of do their thing because I don’t know if I necessarily know how to speak about it so well or write
about it so well. These people know what they’re doing, so I’ll leave it to them.” That or “I just don’t
know if there’s any point.”
Rebecca Huntley: Yes. So it is good that people who are alarmed about climate change feel like
they want to understand the facts, but you don’t actually have to know that much about science
because the science is pretty basic. At a fundamental level, the world is heating up and the ice is
melting, but I would say to people like you who are concerned about climate change, you only have
to know enough of the science and you only have to know that 99% of all climate scientists believe
this is happening. What is more profound is for you to think about what does this mean to me and
people like me in my community?
Jess: What about all those auto-fill letters and petitions? Do they even make a difference? Does
anyone read them?
Ash: Our friends at Greenpeace told us that adding names to a list says, “yes, I back this message”
and it’s a big way that we can get involved and then stay updated in a campaign and we can raise
awareness around the issue. So I guess the thing with petitions and auto-filled letters and stuff like
that, it’s the first step and the first step is so important and easy.
Jess: Exactly. And all those prefilled letters. Well, yeah, you can just click and send or..
Ash: You can copy it into a personal email and you can use the information they’ve got there to
help craft your own message and customise it so you can, you know, sound a little bit expert yet
personal at the same time.
Jess: Whatever way we’re contacting them, as long as there are enough of us from all different
backgrounds, we can just say –
Rebecca Huntley: “These are the ways that we think that climate change is going to change the
community we love. We would like a meeting with you to sit down to talk about this issue.”
Jess: So you don’t have to say, that “this is what I think you should do?”
Rebecca Huntley: No you just say, “we would like to know what you’re doing.” Yeah, they might palm
you off to another staffer, but it’s very hard to palm off six or seven people who live in the area who
are all nurses or all parents. Just go and say, “what are you doing? What are you doing about this
question? What’s your policy?”
Jess: Is there any, like, things you definitely should not do once you go to write a letter or something
on social media?
Rebecca Huntley: I will tell you if you ever write to a politician, never, ever italicize, underline or put
something in caps. Having worked in many, many politicians’ offices, the moment people do that,
you just think crazy.
Jess: Really?
Rebecca Huntley: Absolutely.
Jess: OK, so writing that nice letter here and saying without any italics and underlines and saying I
am so frustrated!
Rebecca Huntley: Yeah. Do not say, “Dear Mr Bastad MP.”
Jess: Yeah I get that. I guess I would be more likely to listen to somebody if they weren’t berating
me for being useless and terrible at my job.
Ash: I asked Jess Scully how to speak to politicians because I mean she is one and her first piece of
advice was, she didn’t miss a beat, she was like –
Jess Scully: Acknowledge what they’ve done. Look at the work that they’ve done, the policies
they’ve had, the positions they’ve championed. Is there anything in there that you think is worthy
of praise or support? And often the results that we see in policy are the result of compromise and
negotiation and hard work. And maybe those people you’re sitting opposite or writing a letter to
have fought those battles. And this was the best they could get at the time. So acknowledge the
work that they’ve done and say, what you’ve done is so great the next step could be or building on
what you’ve done. Let’s try this.
Ash: I love this advice because it kind of applies to whoever we’re writing to, not just politicians, but
me writing to Commbank to tell them I’m switching banks.
Jess: Yeah. To those CEOs of big dirty business. So just do a bit of research, see where they stand,
acknowledge what they’ve done.
Ash: So we’re not calling them a bastard or spraying them with ALLCAPS! but I’m still really angry
about it!
Jess: Me too. Rebecca said, yeah, we can keep that anger.
Rebecca Huntley: Anger is important. Collective moments of anger and frustration are important,
but use anger like chilli, as a condiment rather than as a main ingredient. A little kick. And use it
strategically. Don’t use it on everything.
Jane Fonda (Firedrill Fridays): Are you angry? I hope you are frigging angry.
Ash: OK, so you might remember from our first episode I caught Jess wearing a leotard and
sweating to Jane Fonda. But not the aerobics VCR, to Firedrill Fridays.
Jane Fonda (Firedrill Fridays): We may be stuck at home now, but we’re not stopping.
Jess: So good. But anyway, we’re not actually going to be speaking to Jane here. We’re interested in
this person.
Annie Leonard: We can’t stop just because we’re not together. This is our chance to reimagine the
best our country can be.
Ash: This is Annie Leonard. She’s one of the other brains behind Firedrill Fridays. She’s the Executive
Director of Greenpeace USA and she runs this project called The Story of Stuff. She makes these
concepts that are so complex and big fun. And I love her.
Jess: Annie’s an incredible communicator, a strategic powerhouse. And she’s talking on a global
level to the influential who have influence over the influential, so we’re feeling pretty lucky to have an
hour of Annie Leonard’s time.
Annie Leonard: My kid just went off to college, so I’m like, that’s it, man, 24 hours a day. Let’s go.
We’re going to fight this climate crisis.
Jess: So we’re not about to suggest that we all fight this 24 hours a day. That is one that we can
leave to the professionals.
Ash: But now we’ve got into policy we’re wondering, can normal people like us even change policy?
Annie Leonard: So the question is, can normal people change policy? I will tell you that normal
people are the only thing that have ever changed policy for the better. It is certainly not elected
leaders. There is no case in the history of the world that I know about where an elected leader woke
up one day and said, “I’m going to do the thing that is best for people and the planet.” The reason
that they do that is because normal people get together and exercise our democratic rights. In fact,
abnormal people are the ones that want to continue funding fossil fuels and coal in this era where
there’s just such a dinosaur thing to do. So it’s everyday people. And if you think about it like we
have the technology, we have economic policies, we have the common sense, we have the science
that says it is an imperative. It’s not just a scientific imperative. It is a moral imperative. People are
going to die if we do not turn this around. So we have every single thing we need to do this except
one thing, and that is an engaged public movement demanding it.
Jess: So we’re fired up and very willing to be part of this engaged public movement, but we’ve come
to Annie for help because we are busy. We have jobs and lives, family commitments and all sorts of
things going on.
Ash: If we’re going to pick the most influential person on this big system ship who everyday people
like you and me are actually likely to have influence over, who should it be? The captain, the crew,
the band?
Annie Leonard: Well, first of all, I challenge you on your narrative. I think the influential people are
your listeners.
Ash: You get that? Here it is again.
Annie Leonard: I think the influential people are your listeners. The influential people are the
students and parents and teachers and artists and writers and engineers. Those are the influential
people. We have the power here. The way that we make real change is by coming together. That
is the key word here. By coming together, by building community, by building a movement. When
we come together, our power amplifies gets more and more and more. And it’s infinite. The more
people we bring in and the more we start exercising our activist muscles, the more power we have
to demand change activists muscles.
Jess: Activist muscles, I love that.
Ash: OK, let’s get buff. Where do we sign up?
Annie Leonard: The other side has bombarded us with this narrative about there’s nothing you can
do, there is no alternative. This is just the way it is. Your vote doesn’t count. And we have to say
“absolutely not!” It’s our country. It’s our government. We’re paying the bills. It’s our future. Take it
back!
Ash: Hang on, we’re paying for the things, like this is our tax money. We should be taking it back.
Jess: It’s like the very expensive tickets that we’ve paid for that faulty cruise.
Annie Leonard: And I often think about government. It’s like people built government to take us to
a better place, right? That’s the idea. And if you built a car to take you somewhere and a bunch of
fossil fuel company executives hijacked that car and started going in the opposite direction and
running over kittens and birds and bunnies and smashing into stuff, would you just say, “oh, man,
that car sucks?” Or would you say, “give me back my car?” That’s what we have to say about the
government. These fossil fuel lackeys have taken over the government. It is our government. It
is literally our money. It is our government. It is our future. Take it back! Why are we letting these
people control the reins of power here? There’s way more of us than them.
Ash: Annie, are you trying to radicalise us?
Annie Leonard: Sounds like you’re already there, or you’re getting there!
Jess: I am ready to get radical.
Ash: Great. I feel really hopeful, but I still want to hear from her. What is the number one thing – like
we’ve been asking everyone else – you know, what’s that big impactful thing that we can do?
Annie Leonard: So there’s literally thousands of things you can do, but there’s kinds of things that
goes across no matter what kind of activist you want to be that make a difference, and one is to
find a friend who wants to do this with you so you’re not alone. I can’t tell you how many people
write to me and say and I want to get involved, but I’m only one person and I say go get a friend, you
just doubled! Go! Like there are times when it’s depressing and it’s hard and you’re tired or you just
want to bounce an idea around. Get a buddy to do this with is really, really important.
Ash: OK, step up now, hold onto the railing, keep your eyes closed and not step up onto the rail, onto
the rail and hold on. Now open your eyes. Will you be my heaps better friend forever?
Jess: Ash! Is that a pinkie promise? I love it.
Ash: I saw you wandering around on the deck all by yourself, sailing into this crap future alone. And
I thought, you need heaps better, friend.
Jess: I’m flying! Another reason not to do all this alone, and we don’t really need to say it, but 2020
was huge. From the worst bushfires that we had on record to a pandemic that kept us indoors and
totally changed the way that we’re able to protest and gather publicly.
Ash: In spite of all this, what’s so interesting is that we’ve still had a massive global uprising to
tackle systemic racism in support of the Black Lives Matter movement. And we’ve also had the
most people voting in the U.S. ever in history. So we wanted to know from Annie’s perspective what
collective action looks like in the post 2020 world?
Annie Leonard: This has been obviously an incredibly painful and challenging year, but for me,
it’s also a very hopeful year because I really do feel that we are truly on the cusp of this great
awakening. We don’t have the luxury to solve one crisis at a time, and so we have to solve them
together. And so this has brought together people working on immigration, on racial justice, on
women’s rights, on economic justice, on climate, all these issues together. And what we found
when we all came together is that the solutions to one of these, if we do it right, is a solution to all
of them. And we are so much stronger and smarter as a movement now because we’re not siloed
in our individual lanes just seeing part of the problem. And right now in the post-COVID moment is
the perfect moment for these politicians to change. They are going to be spending billions of dollars
in post covid economic stimulus. They can use that money to invest in that safer, resilient, climate
sensitive, more equitable future, like they can put Australia on a path that would be beautiful and
fair and just and healthy. Or they can prop up these dying industries that are literally killing us. Like
this is the moment.
Ash: There’s an alternative ending to our Titanic story, and we’re pretty determined to have it.
Jess: I hate the original ending.
Ash: Let’s rewrite it right now. We’re all in the same boat heading for trouble. The system is
changing, but not fast enough. And we can all make it change faster because thankfully, all of us
onboard the ship have hands and we can grab one of the tiny 25 million oars.
Jess: Maybe your oar is your ability to call your local MP for community Zoom meeting or make a
podcast.
Ash: Yeah, all everyday people influencing everyday people to make massive change.
Annie Leonard: I read just today that 90% of people in Australia want stronger action on climate,
90%! Like, go, get going, go!
Ash: Those are really good numbers! So action number one, go get yourself a buddy, send a text,
got a coffee, whatever floats your boat.
Jess: Doing all this climate action stuff with a friend or group of friends is so much more fun to
trust us. And you can kind of hold each other accountable in a really loving way.
Ash: And then do you have a dream? Build a team! We’ve heard and we’ve had so many ideas while
we’ve been making this podcast. And maybe you’ve now got an idea for kick starting a community
solar project or getting your local council to start a citizens jury like the City of Sydney story Jess
Scully told us about.
Jess: And finally, literally the easiest thing of all to do, just join an existing movement like
Greenpeace or Seed or 350.org or Knitting Nannas Against Gas.
Ash: One of the things I kind of didn’t realise before getting into this is that Greenpeace is
completely independent. Greenpeace doesn’t accept money from corporations or the government.
It is entirely funded by people who give a damn. And if you give a damn, maybe you want to join
their ranks. It’s as easy as subscribing to their mailing list. You can go to Greenpeace.org.au/
heapsbetter.
Jess: On that website you’ll also find a step by step action plan to make everything that we’ve
talked about in this podcast super easy for you to do at home with your mates. You can get there
via the show notes. And please share this podcast if you liked it, if you learn something and mostly
if you don’t have time to tell all your friends what you learned, just send us their way.
Ash: And give us a nice review, please! It matters because algorithms and stuff.
Jess: We acknowledge and pay respects to the traditional custodians of the land this podcast
was made on and their enduring legacy of sustainability and caring for Country. Heaps Better is
a podcast made by us, Jess Hamilton and Ash Berdebes with Greenpeace Australia Pacific and
Audiocraft. The mixing engineer is Adam Connelly, our brilliant EP and friend is Kate Montague. And
the Creative Lead at Greenpeace is Ella Colley. Our cute little podcast artwork is by Lotte Alexis, and
this series also featured some original music by H.C. Clifford.
Ash: A big thanks also to Liv and the entire Greenpeace team who got behind this project and
worked their butts off. Thank you so much for doing this with us. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast,
please consider donating to Greenpeace so they can make more content like this. There’s a donate
link on the Heaps Better web page.
Jess: Thank you to Rebecca Huntley and Jess Scully, and to Joe Moeono-Kolio and Fenton
Lutunatabua, who gave us so much of their time and stories and words and wisdom, so much more
than we could possibly fit into this little podcast. And to all the writers and activists and analysts
and artists and everyone chipping away every day to bring on the renewable revolution.
Ash: And thank you so much for coming with us. We know that together we are heaps better.